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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Ben: Emily is all Emerald City ing it.
Jeremy: Yeah,
All right, you guys ready?
Lan: Yeah.
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we hold who to progressive
standards it never agreed to.
Tonight we are talking about, the movie
that sparked a, a lifestyle, I feel
like , a whole decade of, of sequels
and ripoffs and everything else.
But we're talking about twilight.
I am your host tonight, Jeremy
Whitley, and with me I have a
panel of cinephiles and cino bites.
First, they're here to challenge the
sexy werewolf, sexy vampire binary,
which is especially important tonight.
My co host, Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: THIS IS WHAT WE
GOT SO WORKED UP ABOUT?!
Like, not to the people who loved
it, to the people who loved it, go
with the grace of Edward, like, God
bless, like, am not your foe, I,
like, enjoy, like, live and love.
I am talking to the shitheads like I was
in 2009, who made such, like, a stink,
and were just so mogging, and were
treating it like a fucking war crime.
And I'm like, this?
chill the fuck out, us of 2009, god damn.
Jeremy: Yeah, I feel like the us of
the 2000s probably could use some,
Ben: yeah, like,
Jeremy: They definitely need
more medication, that's for
Ben: fuck off, let the teenage girls
have their toxic ass power fantasy.
Jeremy: Emily is off tonight, so, uh,
speaking of having her, our toxic ass
power of fantasy our guest tonight,
our returning friend, burlesque queen
and horror baddie, Tara Acevedo.
Tara, it's great to see you.
Terra: I am so excited to be here and
I love that Ben just said all that
because that is exactly my point.
I am here to unapologetically
love Twilight and to defend it
for no by all means necessary.
I don't care that it's garbage.
It's incredible garbage and it's
perfect and leave it alone and
I'm very excited to talk about it.
Ben: I love that for you so much,
and I'm so glad you're here.
Terra: Just let the Femmes
have their power fantasy!
Ben: Yeah, like, yeah.
Jeremy: Absolutely.
And, uh, comics writer and
friend of the podcast, Lan Pitts.
Lan, welcome!
Lan: let's sparkle.
Ben: Fuckin Emma Frost ass lookin bitch.
Jeremy: we're extra sparkly today.
I've, questions about that special effect.
It's not the greatest, but like,
Lan: It's not even
great by 2008 standards.
Ben: mean, normally, in a movie
like this, with acting like
this, I'd be like, What happened?
I have so many questions.
But every part of this movie's
been so well documented that I
have all of the answers already.
She's gay, and he hated everything
about the story and character.
Terra: And that's what, I
mean, the special effects, just
don't look too closely at them.
If you squint, they look great,
but like, even by 2008 standards,
this was an indie movie.
This was very low budget.
I think it was like 30 million
Ben: Oh yeah, no, this movie, they
made this movie, yeah, I think that's
about right, like, I think it was
in the 30s or 40s, and it made over
400 million, like, this was, yeah,
Jeremy: yeah, it made a metric bazillion.
Like, that's, they invented new
numbers for the amount of, like, return
on investment that this movie got.
Ben: they were to remake this movie,
it would be with a 175 million budget.
You cannot
Lan: Yeah, because what,
because money's not real.
Ben: filmmaking isn't largely some sort
Lan: Like, money, money isn't real.
Like, why,
Ben: Joker
Lan: what was the thing that, why is
Joker 2 budget over 200 million dollars
when the first one was made for 60?
Why?
this really falls into the theory of a lot
of the MCU and a lot of movie big tentpole
features are just money laundering
schemes, because you don't need that.
Why did Secret Invasion
cost 200 million dollars?
Why?
It's just, money isn't real!
Ben: like, where did this 9 million
dollars in craft service bagels go?
It
Jeremy: So many bagels.
Lan: why?
Now if they told me, you know, like,
we used real diamonds for the effect,
Alright, sure, alright, I, sure, I guess.
Terra: Swarovski crystal, baby.
Ben: So the horror is capitalism
again, and we haven't even
started talking about the movie.
Jeremy: oh god.
Yeah, so to talk a little bit about
the movie, it is directed by Katherine
Hardwick her most recent film
is the much acclaimed Mafia Mama.
she's, she's got a real strange up
and down career of, of which this
is just a very weird highlight.
It is written by Melissa
Roseberg based on, obviously,
the novel by Stephanie Meyer.
It does star Kristen Stewart,
Robert Pattinson, Taylor Lautner.
Anna Kendrick, a 25 year old,
playing a 16 year old in this.
Kellen Lutz, and a newly
feral, just barely introduced
to society, Jackson Rathbone.
Fresh from the woods,
from the look of him.
Ben: The craziest part of this whole
movie is the part where fuckin Mike,
the dweeb of like the five dweebs we're
introduced to at the beginning in high
school, is told to go ask Anna Kendrick
out to prom and he's like disappointed
Terra: that is,
Ben: that he has to go to
prom with Anna Kendrick.
Terra: yeah,
Lan: he'll never recover.
Jeremy: what sort of power fantasy this
is, is a little up for debate, I feel
like, just because the character of
Bella, is overwhelmingly average as she
is introduced, but everybody loves her
and wants to be her friend immediately.
Ben: okay, do you not understand
how a fuckin isekai anime
Terra: literally, literally,
Ben: oh, oh, Jeremy,
Jeremy: no, I mean,
Ben: the loser protagonist, oh, buddy, I,
Jeremy: this is
Ben: I need to tell you
about Fate's Day Night?
Jeremy: know, this is such an anime,
now that you bring that up, to the point
that like, Kristen Stewart feels like
she's been dubbed over in the sections
where she's talking, and the way that
the dialogue is delivered in this,
where she's like, I guess supposed to be
hesitant and nervous and unsure of what
she's saying in a way that like usually
only makes it to film in a dubbed anime.
I'm
Ben: I mean, the only way I
can describe Robert Pattinson's
performance is going for James Dean
coming down from an ecstasy trip.
Jeremy: I was gonna say present.
He's there
Ben: Like, not like acting, not
acting as James Dean, but just
like doing a James Dean impression.
Terra: The cool guy, James.
Rebel without a cause, kind of.
Ben: But also tweaking it any kind of like
bright lights or like fast moving objects,
Terra: so like, to the point of Bella
being incredibly average, she is, and
that's the entire point, and that's the
entire appeal, because what person is
in the world, or what teenage girl in
the world, is actually as interesting,
or like, powerful, or in their agency
in any way that, like, film is.
Like, Film in general, as a medium, exists
to like, be something bigger than what
humans are, and this character, Bella,
was like the one that every teenage
girl could relate to, because we're all
awkward, we're all losers, not a single
one of us was cool or interesting,
and we're all like, We knew that.
Ben: but yeah,
Terra: so it's like the fantasy of
like, I don't have to be anything but
exactly what I am and like this cool
guy will like me and he'll have a
cool weird family and I'll get to go
on this huge grand magical adventure.
It's literally every
magical realism fairy tale.
It's, it's just the same
thing replicated over again.
And there's tons of like men who are
also incredibly average who have plot
lines that are incredibly average.
And then.
Just have a lot of things happen to
them, but people don't talk about that.
Ben: There's a character in this
movie who I wrote down in my notes
as if Barstool Sports was a vampire.
Jeremy: Yeah, the thing with Bella
for me is that she has written sort
of the opposite of every other high
school movie that we have in the U.
S.
where somebody moves to a new school.
And like, everything's awkward, no one
gets them, and everybody's like, bullying
them because they're weird and not from
here and everything, and it's like, She
shows up from Arizona, and everybody is
like, That's the coolest fucking girl I've
ever seen, how do you get like a, A normal
part in your hair, that's so cool, like,
Terra: But that's also so
Ben: can't imagine a world without the
most intense fucking blue filter I've
Terra: Yeah, they have no
idea what it would look
Ben: This is some real, like, Breaking
Bad y Mexico y yellow filter level.
But then, they go to Arizona, and
the blue filter is still there?
So I don't know what the
fuck they're going for.
Jeremy: open in blue filter Arizona,
which is the strangest choice.
It's, it's, it's the
Chicago part of Arizona.
and, and
Terra: visual metaphor for her loneliness.
Jeremy: yeah, and then they, they moved
to the Pacific Northwest where everything
is somehow both like blue, but also
everybody's incredibly washed out.
Like they, they just have
turned this, like they've turned
the amount that this is like.
I don't know, I don't
even know what they do.
Like, everybody is so almost out of
focus in this that it's, it's so white.
Ben: I feel like I was able to
actually, like, get through this
pretty easily because my brain
really defaulted to, like, CW mode.
Terra: Yeah.
Ben: Like, my br like, I knew it was
a theatrical movie, but I put that on
the television and my brain went, Yeah,
I watched fucking like, however many
seasons of The Flash I made it through.
I know what the fu like,
I can handle this shit.
I've seen worse speed effects!
I've seen better, but I've seen worse!
And
Lan: that's one of my notes
when we finally get to showing
their powers and everything.
It's bad wire work.
It's bad, zoom effects.
It's bad.
Ben: they use it so unnecessarily
too, like when he uses super speed to
like, get to the other side of the car
really fast to open the door for her.
Lan: Yeah it reminds me of X Men
3 The Last Stand because when they
gave Callisto powers and she's
super fast for some reason instead
of what Callisto actually does.
Uh, it reminded me of that.
Just third tier at best.
Jeremy: Forgot that Callisto
was in the third X Men movie.
Lan: Never forget.
Jeremy: I've done my best to
forget the third X Men movie.
Terra: Like, I feel like it cannot
be stressed enough that this movie
was made for like 30 million.
And right before, I know, I only know,
so right before filming, Katherine
Hardwicke was told to cut 4 million from
the budget, and that was like four days
before filming their very first day.
Like, like so many odds are stacked
against them and the choices that were
made were what had to be made and I'm
here to unapologetically defend that,
but also because Captain Hardwick,
something that I really enjoyed about
the visuals, about the blue filter, why I
love it so much, even though It's a lot.
You're all right.
she specifically set out to make a
movie that felt like heroin, that felt
like a kind of drug and that wanted
like pulled people in visually with
the music and how like vibrant and lush
everything felt all like the indie tilt.
She's very into like tilting the
camera in any way if you've seen
any of her other movies like 13.
She's very into that.
And I don't know for me.
When I was, like, a young teen,
I felt exact like, exactly
what her mission statement was,
that was how I felt about it.
It was intoxicating, it was vivid, it
was bright, it was wild, and now as
an adult, I'm like, is this Actually,
I think I've had a reverse journey,
because when I first saw it, I thought,
This was garbage, because I had spent
so many years loving the books so
much, and preaching the books so much.
So much so, that my mother, who is
dyslexic, read the Twilight book.
Like, read the first Twilight book just to
bond with me, because I was so obsessed.
And everyone's telling me, it's like, it's
stupid, it's stupid, it's not even good.
And I was like, no, you guys,
the movie's gonna be good,
you guys are gonna understand.
The movie's gonna come out, and
you guys are gonna understand.
And the movie came out,
And the movie came out.
And it was actively horrible.
Like, truly so bad.
I remember, like, hiding my face in
the movie theater, cringing and I
understood suddenly why everyone was
making fun of it, but as I've gotten
older, I've just become more and more
unapologetically in love with it.
Ben: truly believe this movie
was exclusively written for and
meant to be experienced by Like,
girls going through puberty.
Terra: Oh, for sure.
Ben: judging this story whose head
is not just a maelstrom of hormones?
This isn't for you!
Terra: It's But that's the thing, so,
I was raised very, in, kind of a cult.
super Pentecostal, Christian, very, like,
evangelical, charismatic Christianity.
It was a lot.
And so I wasn't allowed
to Read certain books.
I wasn't allowed to go to the movies.
I wasn't allowed to do stuff when
I was younger and I was really
preached abstinence culture too.
I cannot stress enough how much the story
of Twilight is just abstinence culture.
It's just about being so incredibly horny.
in an abstinent environment.
That's what this story is.
It's about like having so many
hormones and all of the feelings
and being really turned on and not
being able to do anything about it
because it was written by Stephanie
Meyer who was incredibly Mormon.
So that's why we were
all obsessed with it.
Ben: this is an understanding of teenage
sexuality that can only come from an
incredibly repressed Mormon woman.
Terra: Truly.
Jeremy: yeah, I was, I said at
one point when we were watching
this, I was like, it's like Anne
Rice for people with purity rings.
Like, it's just
Ben: Yes!
Alright, Tara, I'm glad you bring up
It is important, yo, what Influences
and books you take in as a child, cause
my mom let me read all the Animorph
books, and now she's surprised when
I advocate for guerrilla warfare
to more of our political problems.
Jeremy: literal, literal gorilla warfare,
Ben: Yeah, yeah, I didn't even, oh shit,
I didn't even make that connection,
oh, that's a better line than I
thought, fuck, good job subconscious!
Jeremy: Ben, did you want to
recap what happens in this film?
Ben: No, but I'll do it anyway!
Yes, let's do it.
Alright, Bella is moving from
sunny Arizona to Forks, Washington,
because her mother's new husband
is a minor league pitcher.
He has to move to Jacksonville.
Jeremy: The threat halfway through
this movie of having to move to
Jacksonville, Florida is the only
jump scare in this whole movie.
Ben: But yeah, he would sparkle
every day, a thing that they'd
honestly probably love down there.
I don't feel like that would
be an issue if they sparkled
every day in the sunlight.
Terra: He'd find a really great
drag community, the burlesque queens
would take him in, he'd be fine.
Ben: Oh god, fucking Edward.
Edward with those like, with
his like, fucking pouty.
How does the vampire have
cheeks that fucking pouty?
Terra: Selk'n.
Ben: Oh my god, Edward in drag?
Ah, you look incredible.
You'd fucking crush it.
It is wild watching this movie knowing
like, Yup, there goes one of the
gayest stars in Hollywood, and Batman.
Jeremy: And one of, like,
legitimately, I like Kristen Stewart.
I would not list her as one of the
best actors working right now, but
Robert Pattinson is legitimately one
of the best actors working right now.
Ben: Hundred percent.
Jeremy: Yeah, like, wildly, I feel
like they've sort of almost reversed
roles, like, now she's a sex symbol,
and he's, I mean, not, I don't know
what she was at this point, but like,
he's, he's a weird quirky kid doing
Ben: The embo I'll tell you what she
had, what she was, the embodiment of
the Madonna whore complex that our
society loves to systematically destroy.
You do your knife dance, Brittany.
We all support you here at
Progressively Horrified.
Terra: Kristen Stewart was
one of my gay awakenings.
Like, I, Remember, I remember her
from, I think it was Catch That Kid.
Ben: big mood.
Terra: Big mood.
Catch That Kid, Kristen Stewart
made me really, really gay.
And then Twilight Kristen Stewart was
really straight in a way that was gay.
You know what I mean?
When you're like too
straight, you're, you're gay.
Um, that was what it was for me.
And cause I didn't know,
I didn't know I was gay.
I didn't know I was queer at all,
but I had a lot of big feelings, but
I, so I liked your point about how.
Robert Pattinson was the, thE sex
icon and now it's Kristen Stewart.
They've kind of switched a little bit
and I think that they've both like
played against their type in a way
because Kristen Stewart was always
getting these like protagonist ingenue
like roles and After Twilight, Robert
Pattinson couldn't go anywhere without
being sexualized as Edward, so they've
like, I don't know, they've kind of
Jeremy: the percentages are on people
who were incredibly into Robert
Pattinson at this point and are now
incredibly into Kristen Stewart?
Terra: I mean, very high.
From my experience, from what I
know, my community, it's high.
I still like both of them, but like,
there's definite, there, there's
definitely a, a male vampire into
sapphic pipeline happening here.
Ben: Oh, what, is the fact that he
looks like Katie Lang in a twink?
It got into, like, the
fuckin fly fusion machine?
Terra: I'm sure that informs it.
Ben: Oh great, fuck, the recap.
Right, so, she goes, like,
she moves, she meets her dad.
Her dad, oh, her poor dad.
which, I guess, like, he's a cop, but
he's one of those, like, I just, I'll
bring drunk people home kind of cops.
He seems out of his depth for
anything that involves actual crime.
Jeremy: no time has a, no time as a dad
cop and we've been less dad and less cop.
Ben: Oh my
Lan: Right, I, I do have my notes.
ACAB includes Papa Swan.
Terra: And I love him so much that my,
so growing up, my friend's mom was,
so we all had crushes and we was like,
are you team Edward or team Jacob?
And we would just like debate this.
And my friend's mom, one time we
asked her and she said, Charlie.
And we all thought that was the
funniest thing because to us, we
were like that, he's an old man.
Why would you even think he's cute?
And now that I am older, I'm
like, no, Charlie is, he's cute.
Hot.
Charlie could get it.
ACAB, though, but Charlie could get it.
And
Ben: Hey, hey, Cap,
but he does own a home.
Jeremy: a cab but maybe not in bed?
Lan: another quick note I have
is I love Bella's apparently
First name basis with her dad.
It's always charlie was this because
in her first Her first person
narrative she calls him charlie Sure.
Okay.
Ben: she meets, Jacob Black.
Uh, he's not important in this movie.
Jeremy: but his, but Billy Black,
his dad, played by Gil Birmingham,
Ben: Oh, fuckin all the stuff for Gil
Jeremy: miles ahead of everybody
else acting skill wise.
Like, he brings so much charisma
into this thing, and he's, he
leaves and takes all of it with him.
he's so charismatic, he feels Like, a
guy talking rather than a person acting.
Lan: Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: a movie that, to a large degree, I
was actively forgetting while watching it.
And yet, Gil Birmingham comin
in with that, like, fuckin six
pack, ready to watch the first
Mariner's game on the flat screen.
I'm like, yeah, fuckin Gil Birmingham,
you fuckin watch that game like I guess
the baseball lovin werewolf you are.
Is that what unites the werewolves
and the vampires, is love of baseball?
Terra: God, no.
Ben: does that come back later?
Ah, that would've
Terra: I have,
Ben: foreshadowing.
Terra: baseball never comes back.
It never comes back.
Ben: that's devastating.
Terra: It was only there that one time.
It never comes back.
And
Lan: know.
And that's so unfortunate
because they make it sound like,
yep, it's a family tradition.
And then they never do it again.
X Men, they are not.
Terra: To be fair, though,
in the rest of the franchise
Lan: Very important.
Terra: To be fair though, in the
rest of the franchise, um, they
have a lot of other things going on.
I don't think they had time for
baseball, so maybe that's just
something that we didn't get to see.
Ben: I'm glad you I'm glad you brought
up X Men, because the villain is
Abercrombie and Finch Sabretooth.
Lan: Yeah.
Terra: Ah, yes!
Lan: Yeah.
Ben: James is, not a good antagonist.
Lan: No.
Jeremy: a le he is the most
level boss, like, bad guy
that you could possibly have.
Even of the three of them that
you meet, he's the other one.
Ben: like, we just
Jeremy: three vampires,
he's the the third one.
The
Ben: did Underworld last week, and
he feels like a character that Kate
Beckinsale would have killed in
the first half hour of Underworld.
Terra: First 15 minutes.
Yeah.
Lan: when Bella tries to make friends,
as we've talked about, like, oh,
she's so likable, and all they know
is like, wow, you're from Arizona.
That's the most exotic place
I've ever heard of in my life.
I like how she uses eating
disorders as an icebreaker.
I thought, yeah, uh, when they
talk about what they need for
the school or school, like
Ben: oh god, that, yeah, the
Lan: they're trying to come
up with prompts or something.
And she's like, what
about eating disorders?
And they're like, that's a great idea.
Let's all talk about eating disorders.
Terra: I remember this now.
Ben: oh my god, I, I tried to
erase everything about Eric in
his fuckin 2000s as fuck haircut.
Terra: so 2000s.
But she was doing some, she
was telling him to go do some
real journalistic research.
Don't talk about me, I'm
just a girl from Arizona.
Talk about something that
matters, like an eating disorder.
Lan: Yep.
Absolutely.
Ben: I imagine Anna Kendrick
appears in every one of these movies
increasingly agitated that she's
contractually obligated to be there.
Terra: Okay, there was an interview
with Anna Kendrick where someone asked
her about her role in Twilight and she
actively forgot that she was in Twilight.
Ben: AMAZING!
Terra: says, I don't think I was in that.
And they're like, Twilight?
She goes, yeah, Twilight.
I don't think.
And they're like, you played Jessica.
Jeremy: most anacandric thing possible.
Terra: yeah, truly so iconic.
Lan: pretty great,
Ben: the degree to which this movie
spends its first, like, solid 20 25
minutes introducing this whole cast of
high school characters who it will just
completely drop off the face of the
earth in, like, The next 10 minutes.
Lan: It introduces about 12
characters, because you have Mike and
his friends, you have Eric, Angela
Jessica Bella, and then the Cullens.
So that's four, yeah, it's about like
sixteen, like twelve to sixteen characters
like in that lunchroom scene just by
itself one after the other, as Jessica
pretty much narrates and introduces
you to the characters as they watch in.
It is a lot to take in
in a short amount of
Ben: Because but as soon as you're
done and you've established and you
understand these characters and their
dynamics, they immediately the movie
immediately throws them away, it's like,
now here's like nine fucking colons for
you to learn their whole personalities
Jeremy: It's like trying to
understand the ocean, man.
Just let it wash over
Ben: I'll I'll tell you what it is!
This movie is like three seasons of a CW
vampire show smashed into one movie, where
it's like season one was the high school
drama, season two is like now you meet the
Cullens, and then like here's our big like
hunter villain from season three as we're
on the run for like eight episodes, but
Terra: movie informed, this movie
informed all of those vampire
Lan: Ha
Ben: Like, that's what it is.
It's like, do I take for granted now, the
normalization of this interpretation by
Vampire Diaries, by Legacy, by True Blood?
Like, let's be honest, this what?
Like, this truly did inform
vampires for the next,
Terra: in the modern age, the vampires
that we have now, this informed a lot
of that, and I think that's also why
people were so mad about it, because it
changed vampires, it changed the nature
of them, and it leaned into the romance,
and all of that stuff in a way that men
specifically really didn't like, but like
people that, you know, any kind of like
love for vampires previously just didn't
like the way that it changed things, but
money talks and you can see how popular
all of these shows got afterwards.
So it's
Lan: Yeah, yeah.
Ben: I mean, Jesus,
Lan: to talk about budget real quick,
when we say the escalation and like, of
the popularity and stuff The sequel, the
first movie was made for 30 something
million dollars and grossed 400 million.
Uh, the second movie was made for 50
million and earned over 700 million.
So let's, take that as it is.
Yeah,
Terra: yeah, that's wild.
And the other ones, I mean, so that's
what's interesting too, is if you do watch
the entire franchise, this first movie.
feels completely different than
the other ones because this is an
indie, very stylized, very genre type
film and the rest are blockbuster.
Um, this is the only film that
Katherine Hardwick did for Twilight.
Even though she had first refusal,
they went to her to ask her if
she wanted to do a sequel and her
answer was, I don't like sequels.
So,
Ben: I was, I'm not sure, I was also under
the understanding that while she had first
rate refusal, they were really insistent
on a turnaround time that she wasn't
comfortable
Lan: they filmed them back to back,
because
Ben: hell.
Lan: first Twilight came out
in 2008, New Dawn was 2009.
They were ready.
Ben: You know what, in hindsight,
that was, Smart of them.
Like, you look at some of these franchises
where, the first one comes out of the
gate hot, really hot, or it just does that
good job of really establishing it in the
mazai, and then you don't get the follow
up until, like, four or five years later.
Lan: Yeah,
Terra: Things were happening so
fast because the books were, the
books were already wildly popular.
Like, it wasn't like the books were
some sort of like non popular thing
when the movie launched into popularity.
The books were so popular in a way
that Hadn't been seen like since Harry
Potter like wildly popular midnight
showings like it sold out all of this
stuff flying off the shelf So like it
was super easy for them to say, okay.
Well this one did well Let's eat meat.
Let's just go right into the
next one in a way that other
franchises have to take more time
Ben: I think something that, again,
both explains its popularity and why it
earned fucking the eye or it did, was
that it took the cautionary tale aspect
of the vampire and went like, nah,
fuck that, let's just go pure fantasy.
It took the aspect, like, the almost
scolding of women's sexuality inherent in,
you know, your classic Dracula story of
like, no, actually, that really charming,
charismatic man who's really attentive
to you and your needs that's actually
He's actually gonna, like, lead you to
ruin, and you need to go with just, like,
the fuckin sadgy ass boring British guy.
Whereas this movie, and from, again, from
this movie on, really kind of took that
cautionary scolding of women aspect out of
vampires, and completely recontextualized
it as a purely fantasy romantic of
just, like, Nah, fuckin just go for
it.
Go for the sexy ass vampire who loves you.
Terra: which is so interesting
because all of that is true and
yet the work is not done to like
make this a healthy relationship.
Ben: No, no, no, no!
Not at
all!
Terra: the shame out
of like women's desire.
It takes the shame out of like
sex and wanting those things
and actually puts a lot of power
and agency in Bella's sexuality.
It puts a lot of power.
in the fact that she just wants
this guy in a very sexual way.
And then all of like the
shame and everything goes into
like a red flag relationship.
Like it just becomes the worst,
most glaring red flag toxic
relationship you've ever seen.
Ben: houses to watch people
sleep, like Again, it's Twilight.
People have been making fun
of these aspects of the movie
for fuckin fifteen years.
We know it.
But.
I think there's a different, like, it's
fucked up and toxic, but like, it's
not, like, and there's so many of these
aspects that truly aren't feminist,
but it's not anti feminist in like a
patriarchy kind of way, it's fucked
up and toxic because horny ass teenage
girls are into some fucked up toxic shit.
Terra: Sometimes you want to be
Lan: I mean,
Ben: sometimes you wanna be toxic!
Lan: sometimes, yeah, sometimes you just
want a little bit of fucked up, but let's
talk about even, I mean, I think it's
weird to consider this like, I mean, it's
definitely a later stage love story, but
I mean, you had interview with a vampire.
Yeah.
You had, in 94, a fucked up
love story, with a not great,
also toxic power dynamic.
And then obviously you had, every
single Dracula ever, where he was,
controlling Nina one way or the other,
while he was slowly but surely killing
her fiancé in his fucking castle.
So It definitely, I wouldn't say
reinvented the vampire love story, but
it definitely made it what's the word?
Ben: I think the
Lan: Most desirable in a way
that
Ben: that I think is the difference
there, is that the point of those
stories was to show this toxic, monstrous
relationship, whereas this movie's still
showing like a bunch of toxic weird
stuff, but I don't think the movie or
the story knows any of it is toxic.
It doesn't treat, it doesn't
treat any of it as toxic.
Lan: Yeah, that's all right.
That's fair.
Terra: And that is where it gets worse.
That's where the red flag
becomes even huger.
Because you don't
Ben: fuckin the good place, Chidi,
the Chidi GIF, that's worse,
you get why that's worse, right?
Like,
Jeremy: the bit where, like, she figures
out that he's been watching her in her
sleep, and he's like, oh yeah, I just come
watch you sometimes, and she's like, cool.
It's like, such a weird
interchange to me, where she
should be like, That's fucked up.
You shouldn't do that anymore.
Or
Terra: yeah, but
Jeremy: before you do it.
Ben: mean, just the whole dynamic
of like, Artemy just wants to rip
take you and rip you apart, but I
must I have to control myself, but
you're just so intoxicating, it's
like, yeah, yeah, I get it,
Lan: I never read the books But
one of my notes is that scene where
they first meet and he's like Trying
to gag or not barf or something.
Ben: the you mean the you mean
the combination cum sneeze?
Lan: yeah.
yeah.
What, what, what is this?
So, my note is, okay, so
what does she smell like?
Because he later talks about, like,
your, your sense is so intoxicating,
or I think he just says that.
What does she smell like,
Ben: I think he's just in Is
he just in love with Arizona?
Does he
Terra: like, he's like, oh my
god, I'm so vitamin D deficient.
Lan: Yeah, I love Sandalwood,
Jeremy: she just smells
Terra: Actually,
Lan: just, I was trying to figure
out why he, like, it seems like he
was sick, but he also was underfed.
Good.
Ben: I It would have been amazing if he
got there at the end and he was like, Oh
wow, I I didn't actually love her at all,
I just want to open up a turquoise shop.
Terra: just like, yeah, but so it is
explained as she's, she's like, like
her, it's explained as her blood to
him is so intoxicating that he can't,
it pushes him over the edge of what
he has decided of like his veganism.
Which other humans don't pull him towards,
and I think that's interesting, I still,
that never is answered, like, her blood
type is a very normal blood type, it's
not anything like that, it's not even like
her scent, that other humans can smell.
It's the scent of her blood.
And also, okay, I just remembered
this, and I have to say it.
So I, since I was a big, I
was a big Twilight girly we
called ourselves Twihards.
That's super cringy, but we were Twihards.
And there was an entire online
forum on Stephanie Meyer's website.
And Stephanie Meyer was really active.
And people would ask, like, what So,
if Edward, like, can't control himself
around Bella because she's, her smell
is too intoxicating for him, what
happens when she's on her period?
And her, she actually responded to
this, and her response was that Edward
notices when Bella is on her period.
And it makes things worse for him, but
he's too much of a gentleman to bring
it up, and Bella is too shy to ask.
That was
Lan: so that was,
but see that's where my brain went
automatically like, oh she's on her period
Terra: she's ovulating.
Lan: and that's why he's just
like, this is too much, I
can't like, I can't handle it.
Terra: No, she was just from
Arizona and she had sunshine.
Lan: right,
Terra: just really wanted vitamin D.
Yeah,
Jeremy: I like to play a game with
this, which is like, if you were
to take Edward out of any scene and
put Emmett into that spot in that
scene, what would it look like?
Just, him sort of like there
with his, Like, like Ben said
barstool, sports, backwards, hat,
like, Sitting in a room like,
Terra: doing the little hand rub.
Working up his riz.
Jeremy: man!
Ben: I really want to emphasize that
we were in the late 2000s, because
this man looks like he's a, he's trying
to impersonate Turtle from Entourage,
Terra: Yeah.
He definitely wore Ed Hardy.
Ben: like, nothing about
Emmett was even in style by
Terra: by 2008.
no.
Lan: no.
and
Jeremy: think, I'm an 8, Ed Hardy.
Ben: did this, this fashion
really
Jeremy: coursing through his veins.
Ben: this fashion really peaked
with Too Fast, Too Furious?
Terra: Hardy and monster energy drinks.
Ben: I regret
Jeremy: the monster energy drink
and just like bites into it.
Terra: Yeah,
Ben: I regret to inform y'all that
Emmet definitely has a podcast now.
Terra: does
Jeremy: he's the one in the duo that
laughs at the joke and then repeats it.
Like, he's got a, he's got a funny guy
that says jokes and then he's the guy
that just repeats them back and laughs.
Ben: It's him and Jasper.
Jeremy: But there's got to be
somebody else because I think Jasper
is just the third one that's like
licking the mic during the thing.
Terra: He's just staring really
uncomfortably.
Ben: like, there's Rosalie who just,
like, arbitrarily decides she has,
like, a rivalry with, like, Bella.
Does, does that go anywhere in the
series?
Okay.
Okay.
Terra: incredible dislike of Bella
comes from the fact that Well, it's a
dangerous thing to have a human, like,
know about you, but also she's incredibly
jealous, because she was, she was a
victim of assault, and she was murdered
by like a group of men in her tragic
backstory, and so she never got to have
a life, so, As it develops, we learn
more about, like, the sexual assault and
everything that happens to Rosalie and
how she got vengeance against those men.
It's a very, like, rape revenge story
for Rosalie, which I love for her.
I mean, I don't love that for her,
but, like, kill them, you know?
And she just has
Ben: If you're gonna have the, if you have
to have the first, at least you can have
Terra: At least you can murder them.
Yeah,
exactly.
Ben: I don't love I'd
rather not have the first,
but if it's gonna be there, I guess,
yeah, definitely have the second,
Terra: Yeah, definitely that.
But so she has a lot of like rage
in her and she's very jealous and
doesn't want Bella to become a vampire
because she wants to be a human.
And it only really goes anywhere.
I don't know if you guys even
know that Bella has a child.
You must know.
Jeremy: Oh, I, I am
Terra: Yeah, so she has a child and
then Rosalie is like, I'm gonna be
the mother and like just takes care of
the kid but then Bella doesn't die and
she's kind of like, okay, well, I guess
you can have your baby back, bitch.
Um, but they, once Bella becomes a vampire
and there's no way to avoid her and once
she has a daughter specifically because
Rosalie always wanted to be a mother.
Their bond solidifies a little
bit, which is also very Mormon
Ben: yeah.
I mean, that's the great contradiction
of this movie, and why I think it was
able to just so adequately short circuit
everyone's brains is that it is, on
the one hand, this, like, incredibly
horny, passionate, like, forbidden
romance, like It like that teenage,
infatuation on over on on overdrive,
Jeremy: I mean,
Ben: but it also is
Jeremy: of Manic Vampire
Dream Girl, uh, Alice Golan.
Ben: but also has a big no sex
until marriage like message.
Terra: Well, and that's also Edward,
like, later on in the series,
Edward is like, I'm not gonna have
sex with you until I marry you.
And Bella's like, that's really dumb.
We can just have sex.
And he's like, no, I'm from
a different time, Bella.
I just don't do things that way.
It's super abstinent.
It's super all that stuff.
And then once they do, they're like,
But like, there's so many things in
this series that are super Mormon,
like the, the werewolves, like all the
stuff that she did with the werewolves
is also like high key racist because
she like calls them like savages and
like they're the natives of that land.
the werewolves have More polyamory
built into their bonds with each other
in certain ways and like almost a
like a sister wives thing develops at
some point and like they're my friends
and I have a drinking game where we
just get together and we'll watch
Twilight and Play spot the Mormonism.
And we just like, there you go.
Take a shot for the polyamory, take a shot
for the sister wives and all that stuff.
Which as a polyamorous, pansexual,
former evangelical, it's just it
all just makes too much sense to me.
Ben: Yeah, like that
Lan: when you play that game, do
you count the Stephanie Meyer cameo?
Terra: there she is
Ben: though, the repression that it
takes to get a sexuality in a story this.
She's so psychotic, I'm gonna say.
Oh, you only get that
from Organized Religion.
Terra: truly.
And like, It, what you were saying
about how funny it is that it's
so conservative and also so horny.
I have to say, the horniest people I've
ever met in my life were Christians.
Were super evangelical Christians who,
because they give themselves another
outlet and like, if you've ever been
to a praise and worship moment at
like a very conservative evangelical
church, I have, as a stand up comedian,
I do a whole bit about how Christian
music is just really horny for God.
And then I actually do talk about
Twilight, because if you literally
just switch out God for Edward
Cullen, it sounds like the same thing.
Ben: Bella, again, she's such an
odd character, because her only
thought is wanting to be with Edward.
But goddamn, does she, but she exercises
so much agency and determination.
In that single minded goal.
Terra: Like, all, that's
all she wants, yeah.
Ben: Oh
my god,
Jeremy: such a bizarre thing to,
like, It's like, is it feminist if
the woman has an incredible amount
of agency, and all she wants to do
with it is get with this one dude?
Like, that's, that is all she wants to do.
And it's, the ball is entirely in her
court, except for, like, his balls, which
are literally off, out of bounds for her.
Terra: Off the table.
La
Lan: 'cause I really wanna talk about,
Ben: I think we introduced
the high school friends.
Okay, the high school friends are here.
Then she meets Edward.
High school friends are gone.
Lan: Mm-Hmm,
.
Ben: Uh,
Jeremy: Instead, we get
the Cullens replacing
Ben: they smelly, they, you know, they
like, smell each other, or whatever
the fuck it is they're doing, like.
and then a van almost hits her.
Oh, there's this one guy in the
high school who's just the worst.
He's introduced, he pulls the chair
out from one person, just kisses Bella
on the cheek, like, she has, like,
never even talked to the guy, and
then, he almost hits her with a van.
Lan: slippery.
Jeremy: I do not understand
what happens with this van.
Like, I understand that he almost
hits her, and Edward, like,
Lan: He's trying to park.
Yeah,
Jeremy: understand why the van
comes sailing across the parking lot
Lan: he's trying to park.
He's trying to park.
Yeah.
It's slippery.
Yeah, it just rained because
it's, the Pacific North.
so he's trying to park and he can't,
so he's coming into the school parking
lot, brakes lose his control, and
that's when things go kind of haywire.
Jeremy: It feels like an anti marijuana,
like, advertisement, because this is
the smoking kid who, like, suddenly
he's like, No, I can't control the car.
I guess I'm gonna kill somebody.
Uh oh.
It's like Wait, this is not
what marijuana does to people.
This is not it.
Ben: Uh, so yeah, so a car gets high, I
guess, and almost kills Bella, but Edward
uses his fuckin iMovie super speed powers.
Lan: Ha That's what it is!
okay.
Ben: Yeah, uses that super speed to,
and super strength to block the car,
and just kicks off a whole bunch
of ergo and like, What are you?
Are you, are you a cold one?
That's one of the things she looks up,
Lan: I love, I, I did have, again,
also uh, in my notes, cold wet phobia?
Pass me a cold one.
Jeremy: Yeah, I love the, I love the
explanation of vampires as cold ones,
as if nobody writing this had ever heard
that expression used for a beer, like.
Lan: or, people with iron deficiencies.
Good Lord.
So, yeah, that I'm really excited to
get to when you finally get to the
colon and the blacks like rivalry.
I want to talk about that
for a minute or two, but I'll
let you go back to your recap
Ben: I mean, that's, pretty much the
next thing is Bell is like starts going
around being like Edward a vampire.
I better get more clues and then
she goes on a I guess a surfing day
Terra: push, baby.
Jeremy: friends are like,
let's go to the beach.
And Edward's like, oh,
I can't go to the beach.
just totally normal thing to say,
I am not allowed at the beach.
Ben: Also, he can
absolutely go to the beach.
There's no sun at this beach.
No, you're not, you ain't
gonna sparkle at all.
Lan: There's no sun anywhere.
Jeremy: the way he says it, it sounds
like legally he is not allowed within the
Lan: he is
Terra: he is not
Ben: yeah.
I mean, we get Jacob being like, hey, so,
uh, I'm not a werewolf, don't know why
you'd ask if I'm a werewolf or anything.
But me and Edward, who's definitely not a
vampire, uh, we don't have, our families
don't have some sort of Underworld
style werewolf vampire, like, pact,
or like, peace
Lan: Um, I do love, uh, when,
for some reason, I love how
she came to this conclusion.
She buys one book, goes
Jeremy: from a local bookstore.
Lan: like, from a bookstore, great,
and then reads one thing from book
and then immediately goes online
and goes through a wiki rabbit hole
of vampire history and somehow has
decided, yep, that's what this guy is.
Not a Frankenstein, or no,
he's not a zombie, no, he is
definitely a vampire, for sure.
And I love that thought pipeline
from cold one to vampire,
because it's not a long one.
it sort of reminded me of the Are You
Afraid of the Dark episode, where the
kids think their neighbors are vampires,
it's like the parents, and then when
they're finally confronting them, The
parents are outside in the day, and
they're like, Yeah, we're about to move.
Sorry about that.
And you're like, but
they had to be vampires.
And it turned out their
son was the vampire.
Plot twist.
Love that for us.
And it got to a point where I loved where
he was explaining, I am a vampire, yes.
And he was showing off his feats of
strength by just tearing up trees.
Like, you think you could stop me?
Ah, tree!
You think you're faster than me?
And then he like runs around really
Ben: effects are
Lan: And then, I could kill you right
now, but I won't, sure boss, whatever.
So, it was just a really weird scene,
because what if she had been wrong?
What if she had said something
completely like, I know what
you are, you're, uh, anemic.
And he's like, oh yeah, word, absolutely,
Terra: definitely
Ben: what if he was a leprechaun?
Lan: Right, what if he was something else?
What if he was absolutely something else?
And he's like, oh, well, no,
I'm actually a vampire, my bad.
Like, it's just a really weird conclusion
Ben: be like the sitcom version where
he goes, he's going back to the Coens
and he's like, Alright guys, I know
we're leprechauns, but she thinks we're
vampires, so I need you to do me a solid.
I'm,
Jeremy: Put the gold away guys.
Lan: the gold away.
But I also, I'll just say this
now I can get it out of the way.
Before you get back to your
recap, because I, before I forget.
first of all, Taylor Lautner
and his Party City wig.
Ben: Oh my god, that wig!
Lan: bad.
I
Ben: so glad you brought up the wig.
I'm so glad you brought up that
Lan: And I'm like,
Ben: ass wig.
Lan: I know they had to cut four
million dollars, but they could have
done something else, this poor kid.
And, the fact he was almost cut
from the movie because he wasn't,
quote, in shape, or whatever, I can't
remember the reasons why he said
he was almost fired, but they were,
Ben: was it that he was fu was that he
was almost cut from this movie or was that
they were going to replace him for the
Lan: they were going to replace
him from the set, for the sequels.
Ben: Yeah, if he didn't get buff enough.
Lan: Something, yeah,
something, like, some,
Ben: That's so fucked
Lan: Purpolous reason because it's stupid.
Anyway the flashback scene of the
Wolfmen versus the Cullens and how
the Cullens look like goddamn newsies.
That was my favorite part.
I just
howled at these druid wolves and
coming out and it's these fucking
Goddamn Peaky Blinders people eat this
deer in the middle of the woods, and
they've all got shitty mustaches, and
Jeremy: I just wanted to
see Alice with her very
tiny top hat, you
Lan: quartet.
And I'm just, this is, why this?
Why this?
Why this?
And it was just the funniest thing.
funniest thing to me.
Oh my god.
Go watch that scene again.
It is just, just, pause on the costumes.
It is
Ben: Well,
if we're talking about costumes,
we didn't mention at the time,
just all, all the Coens are wearing
the craziest fucking outfits.
Lan: Yeah,
Terra: They're all very 2008.
For me, it's the makeup.
The makeup on every single one
of them to make them look pale
is so hard to look at sometimes.
I, like, Carlisle is so scary.
Lan: I was about to say, Carlisle is, I
was about to say, Carlisle especially,
like, you know, you're a doctor.
If I'm a doctor, And I have doctor peers.
I'm going to talk to my doctor friend
and be like, Hey bud, you okay?
Because I
Terra: look like you're dying.
Lan: I can web MD you right now,
and it's not going to be good.
Can we do like a blood sample?
Nope.
Bye.
Ben: I just, what do we
think about Alice's hair?
Do we have thoughts about Alice's hair?
Lan: it was five years too late,
because I feel like that style
peaked with Josie and the Pussycats.
Ben: Ooh, ooh, great
Lan: like it peaked
Terra: I do
fully
Lan: eight years prior to this.
with Josie and the Pussycats.
Ben: you'd think she would have seen
coming, like, with her future powers.
Lan: Nope.
Jeremy: She didn't see herself
getting replaced as the lead singer
of Paramore either, so, you know.
Ben: Alright, when this movie busts
out the Paramore, I'm like, yes.
Good, this is the inappropriate
place for Paramore to be.
When this movie busted out
Eyes on Fire, I'm like, the
fuckin gall of you, Twilight.
Terra: soundtrack is so good.
I have to say you like, just take a
minute to just listen to the soundtrack.
It's so good.
But the reason why it's so good is because
Catherine Hardwicke went around to the
teens that like they just saw in town and
just asked them what they were listening
to and what they thought was cool.
So she was getting floods
of recommendations.
At one point they went to um, oh gosh,
I don't remember, but they went to
like a concert and she was like, this
is how I want to make this movie.
And like, that's the soundtrack.
Lan: it's definitely a step up because
my phone was listening to the soundtrack,
so just for what it caught was Full
Moon by the Black Ghosts, Eyes on Fire,
Blue Foundation Supermassive Black
Hole, obviously by Muse Flightless
Bird, American Mouth, Iron and
Wine, and then 15 Step by Radiohead.
Ben: Fuckin views and that.
Lan: it's
Jeremy: Fucking Iron and
Lan: from what people think, like
music, or that they listen to, and
how music is sort of represented.
From, say, Queen of the Damned, from
any, uh, from the Lestat concert,
where it's just a bunch of weirdos with
pitchforks and devil horns and some
shit for some reason, go watch that.
It's awful.
It's cliche and it's,
Ben: I do feel like this movie did
do an a like, a really good job of
capturing The sound of the 2000s.
In a way that we don't usually get from
movies beyond just being like, Yes, we
did briefly allow nu metal to be a thing.
Terra: And Paramount was a rel
was a new band at this time.
Like they had, I
don't know how
Ben: the Paramore songs, wait,
like, which song is it again?
What is it, is it
Jeremy: it's, I caught myself.
Terra: It's Decode and I Caught
Myself.
Ben: Code.
D Code is fucking iconic.
Terra: Iconic.
Ben: Amazing song, D Code.
Jeremy: Yeah, I, then, so Alicia and I
were watching this, and we got to the,
like, dance scene at the end at the
prom, and I was like, oh, Alicia, look,
their song is an Iron and Wine song,
too, because our Arsar is, the flightless
bird of Erikadoth is maybe not the
best, like, song for your, your couple.
I don't know, it's wild.
Uh, but it's a, it's a wild choice to just
get thrown in there, along with Tom York.
Like, just,
Lan: Yeah, it's very eclectic.
It's definitely early
mid 2000s contemporary,
Jeremy: I mean, and, and, let's not
pretend that Leave Out All the Wraths
by Linkin Park isn't in the credits.
It's, it's right there.
Terra: And that's, that's such
a Catherine Hardwicke thing.
Like her other films, like
she just, she's super indie.
Like all of her music is very
eclectic, like in alts and Indian
straight, like this is all so accurate.
And then the, because you had mentioned
the music that was on there, I
remembered it was a Radiohead concert.
That was the concept that she went
She went to a Radiohead concert.
She heard the 15 steps.
Lan: yeah,
Terra: Something steps.
So that was the song and she
was
like,
Lan: that's the song
in the closing credits.
Terra: she was like, I want to make
this movie the way that this feels.
Yeah.
Ben: Okay, oh, that ending where it just
like, Focuses on Annabelle, like, she's
the sequel hook, and then it's like, Fade
to black and white, super upbeat song.
Gotta take credit, so I'm like,
what am I supposed to feel here?
Lan: I,
Ben: emotion do I, you want
out of me right now, movie?
Like, what, what should I feel
walking out of the theater?
Lan: I forget, again, second or third
time I've seen this, but I forget
how, how just abruptly it ends.
Not like, oh, we're definitely going
to be leaving on a cliffhanger, like
it's an incomplete story presented.
Jeremy: that third act
comes out of left field.
I mean, literally out of left field.
Like it just, they, they just walks
into the middle of the baseball scene.
And then that's the third act.
Like,
Terra: That's the thing.
The story is Bella and Edward.
And like, before we started recording,
but Jeremy was saying there's
not a lot of plot to this movie.
And that's so true because the
plot is just Bella and Edward.
But then the actual plot is.
A lot like a lot happens in a short amount
of time and is not super fleshed out and
it's just like okay we're here now and
now we're back in Arizona and this is
happening and now we're at prom like what
Lan: Yep.
Jeremy: yeah, the conflict in this is
like somebody read her first draft of the
book and was like, you need a conflict
in your third act because there's that
one and she was like okay and just put it
there like it just comes out of it comes
out of nowhere and I before we get out
of the like music stuff too much I did
want to say like pointing at myself at
this point like the things I make fun of
in Twilight as like feeling generalized
and like pointed toward a very specific
group of people is that like Linkin Park
Sort of was that for me too of like Linkin
Park has that hook to everything they do
of like It's just not specific enough to
fit your angst, whatever your angst is.
Um, so like, yes, teenage, uh,
white boy, this is totally about
you and your whatever problem it is.
Lan: Right.
Ben: what fucked up Linkin, now I loved
Linkin Park at that age, what really
fucked it up as a source of rebellion
for me, was that my mom introduced me
to the Linkin Park, and that just, when
mom's like, I, I got you the CD, I think
you'll like it, and it's like, well, this
is, Kills all the whole rebellion part,
Terra: you're like you're right
but it just doesn't hit the same.
Ben: but it's like, yeah,
I'm gonna play my music loud.
She's like, I'm glad
you're enjoying the gift.
I got you
But anyway, teen angst and horniness
Lan: yeah.
Ben: anyway, they just Immediately started
dating when she's when like Edwards or
when she's like say it out loud in case
anybody followed us and can overhear us
Lan: Over, right, say
it as loud as possible.
Ben: Shout it off the rooftops.
What am I?
Terra: Treatment in this forest right now.
Yeah.
Ben: Bella's like, I am a total monster
fucker, I am here, let's do this, all
Terra: love that scene so much.
I love all the iMovie speed, uh,
uh, action sequences in that.
I love it.
And I will to this day.
At any point in time, I'll just say
like as if you could outrun me and throw
something like a pen because I think it's
so funny as if you could bite me off.
Ben: I mean, just that it's like,
super dramatic, piggyback ride.
Terra: Oh, yeah.
Ben: I, later in the movie, when he's
like, hold on tight, spider monkey!
Terra: Okay, he chose that line, because,
just another tidbit, another fucking
tidbit, Katherine Hardwick, uh, was
they were figure, she was like, she
couldn't figure out what she wanted
him to say right there, there was no
line there, so the night before, she
wrote out a few different lines, she
threw that one in there, you better
hold on tight, SpiderMonkey, because
she was so tired, and she just put it
down, she's like, that's really stupid,
he's not gonna pick that, she goes
to Rob, and she's like, hey, what, I
want, I want you to say something here.
Which one do you want to do?
And he said, I like the spider monkey one.
Ben: Of course he did!
Robert Pattinson clearly played this
character as someone who's like, this
character has had a hundred years
to try to figure out how to be a
normal fucking person, and he's not
even got not even
Lan: Failed at every corner.
Jeremy: that, that line feels the most
like the rest of Robert Pattinson's career
to me, of everything else in this movie.
When he's just like, hold on Spider
Monkey, this character who has had
no sense of humor to this point.
Ben: When they go to the restaurant
and like the waitress is like,
and what do you always like?
Oh I don't eat.
I,
Terra: What do you mean no sense of humor?
He put on sunglasses after he
said, I guess I'm going to hell.
He's got got humor for days.
Like, but that's so true.
Like, it's funny because you're watching a
character who's like inherently humorless.
Like Edward Cullen is not a humorous guy.
And I don't remember him ever being
humorous in the book or anything.
Robert Pattinson is so humorous, and
like, watching it, knowing how much
he hated it, just makes it so yummy.
Like, I think that's also like, that
effervescent quality of like, why did
this kind of work, even though it's so
outlandish, it's so camp, it's so out
of the box, it's so strange, but the
strangeness is because like, he just like
the self loathing of Edward work because
of how much Robert Pattinson hated Edward?
Ben: they have like nega chemistry,
Bella and Edward, where it's just
like the, I think part of it is just
like, you can't look away from the
car crash of these, the two most
awkward, socially inept motherfuckers.
Just actually.
Be so, like, Romeo and Juliet
style, just over the top committed
to each other, while there's just
no fucking engine under the hood.
It's just
Jeremy: I mean, basically where this hits
in the Romeo and Juliet spectrum is like,
what if, like, Juliet was like, yes, okay,
I'll, you, you came to profess your love
to me at the balcony, I love you, and
Romeo was like, cool, let's kiss and then
not fuck, or get married for a long time,
and,
Lan: basically what happened.
It's definitely a quick romance
Kahn, when she's at the hospital.
Spoiler alert,
Ben: This is I'm telling you, this is
why it's
short
Lan: it's
like, like, she's hellbent, vehemently
just, I can't live without you.
Like, girl, you have known this
man for two months, if that.
Jeremy: unclear,
unclear amounts
Ben: that's the secret of
Twilight.
That's how it became, that's how
it became, like, the Switzerland in
America's, like, cultural civil war
that no one knew what to do with, like,
the fucking, the liberals were all
like, Well, it's as vampire fucking,
so we gotta be in support of that.
And the conservatives were like, well,
it's, like, we're getting a lot of, like,
Christian no sex till marriage vibes, so.
We're in support of that, so, like, no
one knew what the fuck to do, so we just
let it be no man's land until it fucking
took over an entire generation of girls.
Lan: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, I wonder what would have
happened with all those, like, right wing
boycotts of Harry Potter for witchcraft
if, like, They had just included like,
also, we're not fucking until marriage and
just for some reason in the middle of a
Ben: Or just like in the middle of like
the fifth book, there's just one line
where Professor McGonagall is just like,
And by the way, our spells are powered
by our faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ.
Never brought up again, but
it's just there, like, to kind
of get them off their back.
Terra: I don't, I wasn't
allowed to read Harry Potter.
That was like one of the things that
like they would Literally preach in
my church was hell, like you'd go
to hell if you read Harry Potter.
So I wasn't allowed to read it.
And then my rebellion was like being
16 years old, finally sneaking a Harry
Potter book into my house to read it under
the covers with the fucking flashlight.
Like that's
Ben: I'm pretty sure the church
you grew up in is now in the
same moral position as Twitter.
Terra: pretty sure.
Yeah.
Lan: I'm trying to think, I
was 25 when it, like, came out.
And then, how old was I when the
first Harry Potter movie came out?
Eighteen?
Yeah, about eighteen, because
that came out in 2001.
And so we definitely, my the
megachurch, my, town wasn't involved
with, uh, they definitely did some
boycotts, but Nothing strenuous.
They showed up at the theater,
I think, like once or twice
when the movie came out.
But when Twilight hit, no one gave a shit.
And it was really, it was an interesting
dynamic because you almost felt like
women wanted to actually check this out.
But there wasn't anything to really
protest because they're not demons.
There's no real quote unquote magic
outside of Alice's clairvoyance
and like in lycanthropy.
So it was really weird how I, I really
thought that would have been more sort of
because of just the horniness in general,
but watching this now, like nothing
happens again, as we, we kind of preface
this conversation with why were people so,
why were we committing culture wars and
Ben: right?
Terra: To be honest, a lot of the reasons.
So culturally not talking
like spiritually in church.
I have a point for that too,
but culturally, socially.
People hated it because
teen girls liked it.
This was early 2000s.
Ben: 100%, 100%.
Terra: Young teen girls liking
something is immediately on
the chopping block for comedy.
It's immediately on the
chopping block for anything.
You're not, you're not cool.
You're not interesting.
You're not good.
You don't have good taste.
And like, I was literally always told
that anything I liked was immediately
dumb, stupid, not good, whatever it
was, even if it's like, argue, be
like, this is actually fucking amazing.
And they did that in like so many ways.
And like Twilight was so hated because it
was so popular with teen girls at a time.
That was like just absolutely
abhorrent rampant with sexism
and just like blatant misogyny.
Ben: that is exactly what it is
from someone who at the time hated
Twilight for all of those reasons.
And is now like, damn
2009 me, you fucking suck.
Jeremy: I am happy to admit that like,
the reasons I didn't like Twilight are
equally stupid, but much more pedantic.
Like, just like, the writing is not
very good, and also Like, just from a
technical standpoint, not very good.
Ben: Well, I worry that I, you
know, again, I was like, oh, it's
just a bad, dumb, stupid movie.
But I'm like, you're just being,
I'm like, no, I don't trust,
I don't trust my conscience.
I know my subconscious was shittier.
Jeremy: yeah, and it's the same,
and it's also just the same thing
that I got mad at with Underworld
when we watched it a few weeks ago.
Where it's just like, these are vampires.
Also, all the things you know about
vampires that make them vampires
are not relevant to this story.
Like, they, they do not
burst into fire and sunlight.
They do not have trouble with garlic.
anything you know that is
specific to vampires, not true.
Now let's move on.
Ben: Underworld I did not have
any problems with as a teenager.
Everything that happened in
Underworld, I'm like, this shit rips.
Hell
Lan: yeah.
I didn't, yeah, no, I was, I
was 20 when Underworld came out.
I think I saw it opening weekend.
And yeah, absolutely, shit rips.
What happened to, like, I mean, obviously
Kate Beckinsale is still around,
but what happened to Scott Speedman?
Jeremy: Speedman?
Lan: What
Ben: He, He has actually been
in one of the big medical shows.
Lan: Okay.
Ben: Let me look that up right now.
He is, oh yeah, he's been in like
Grey's Anatomy and yeah, he, he's
done well in like the TV world.
Lan: Okay.
Jeremy: He, you know, they
love, people love the taste
of vanilla, I just gotta say.
Terra: Very briefly, back
to the church banning stuff.
So, cause my church was very very against
a lot of different things, especially
Harry Potter, and they didn't know
Twilight well enough to be against it,
and like, like you were saying about how
it's like, there's nothing really in it
that's like overly offensive, so like
people couldn't find a sticking point, and
so that's why I was allowed to read it,
like, they just didn't know about it, they
didn't know that I had found, I had found
this really horny vampire, so book, and
that I was feeling really horny about it.
And so I was obsessed.
I kid you not, it was my Bible.
It was my Bible.
And I made all of my friends read it.
And it became so popular
with the girls in my church.
that my church actually did put
that on the list afterwards.
Like my pastor, I remember at one
point during one of his sermons where
like the chandeliers would shake and
all this stuff, and all of a sudden
he starts bringing up Twilight.
And it's because the girls in the
church started being like such fangirls
over Twilight that just because we
were visible and liking something, he
added it straight to the list of like,
well, that's a, that's a false icon.
That's whatever.
And you're not allowed to
Ben: You know what?
I'm just gonna say it.
The Bible stans are the worst
Terra: The worst, the
worst the worst fandom.
But that's like that's part of
why I was like, I think you only
hate this because we like this.
Lan: Yeah, I
Ben: Ding ding ding ding
ding ding ding ding ding.
Jeremy: yeah.
And each new version of it
that they put out has new stans
that are, that are wild in
Terra: spawn of it is just
as worse as the last one.
Ben: Martin Luther with the world's
most important tumblr post of all time.
Terra: But yeah, the book
itself is not written well.
Like as a, I found it when I was
a young teen, read all the books.
And then by the time the fourth book
came out, I was, 18 ish around there.
Um, my friends were all very obsessed.
We'd like go to the midnight
release parties and we would buy
the books and then we would stay up
all night and read them together.
And I don't know what happened.
I, I had just grown up.
It had been a few years since the
last book had come out and I'm
reading the fourth book and I'm
just like, This is objectively bad.
This is, the prose is horrible.
It's not, like, everything
about this is not good.
And the story just gets worse.
That's where she gets, she gets, they
get married, they have sex, she gets
pregnant with, like, a vampire baby, and
then she dies, and then Jacob imprints on
her baby, and the only reason why Jacob
was ever in love with Bella was because
he was always meant to be with her baby.
It's just weird, and it it doesn't
get any better, and I remember just,
my friends were reading it, and we're
all in this living room together,
and I'm feeling like I'm having this
incredible awakening, like, oh my
god, this thing that I've loved so
much, I don't think I love anymore.
And my friends are still so in it,
they're like, oh, this is amazing,
oh my god, this is crazy, and I'm
like, What are you talking about?
This is so stupid.
This is so dumb.
Jeremy: Like, I also think
it's crazy, but negative.
Terra: It's crazy in a
Ben: Crazy.
Derogatory.
Terra: But like, as I've gotten older,
I've allowed myself just to enjoy trash.
Like, why can't I enjoy the garbage?
Like, it doesn't have to
be good for me to love it.
So I feel like I'm retconning a bit of
my younger years and allowing myself to.
Just
Ben: Yeah, like
look, some look, fuckin yeah, we get it.
We should always eat our, you
know, enjoy our nice, fancy,
like, well prepared movies.
But sometimes, we just wanna dive
into a bowl of potato chips and M& Ms.
Terra: Sometimes.
Ben: Oh man, are we still doing the recap?
High school god, we get the
Cullens, they're playing baseball,
baseball
Lan: I love that.
I love the baseball.
I love they're wearing
their old timey uniforms.
I'm guessing they've had since like 1924.
Ben: Honestly, that was, this is the
most adorable part, like, this, they
felt, this is the most explored and
fleshed out that they get, is the
idea that like, Oh, here's like this
sport, and they have like these rare
opportunities to really just let loose
and have fun as a family, like, If this
movie could breathe for us, if like, if
this movie wasn't, again, a three season
CW drama smushed into one movie, and I
actually really cared about this, like,
Jeremy: would have been the
best episode of the season.
Ben: exactly!
This would be, this would be
Jeremy: pitching in
ballet for some reason,
Terra: Yes!
Ben: like, this is the episode, again,
this is like the, like, this shit,
this is like the Arman Bashir of
Twilight, where like, it's the silly
episode that we never stop loving.
But as is, it's like,
It's so fucking weird.
Jeremy: yeah.
And then the bad guys, the bad
vampires just fucking field of dreams out
of the corn into the middle of the story.
Ben: vampires have been killing people.
They weren't important, so
I forgot to mention them.
They're in the story, and they're
the main conflict, and they're
still not actually important.
Lan: Nope.
Ben: We get to see James, who
is aforementioned Abercrombie
and Fitch Sabretooth.
we got Victoria.
She
will not
Do they replace her with a
different actress in the next movie?
Terra: do.
They
replaced her with Bryce Dallas
Howard, which is shady as hell.
There's a whole story on that.
I'm still mad about it.
Ben: Damn, because she
does nothing in this movie.
Terra: So, okay.
Because there's Laurent, there's
James, and then there's Victoria.
So in this first movie,
James is the villain.
And then in literally the next
three movies, it's Victoria.
Well, the next two movies ish.
It's Victoria, and Victoria is like
avenging James, and her character
gets so much cooler and actually
does stuff, but Bryce Dallas Howard,
who I love, was not the right fit.
And Rachel Lefebvre, I think she was
the original cast for what's her name?
Vampire Lady.
Why am I forgetting her name?
Her.
And so she had scheduling, very minor,
like, scheduling conflicts, but she
was like, let's work around this.
Like, I'll figure something out.
And like, really wanted to, and they
told her that they would work with it.
And then they just hired Bryce Dallas
Howard and didn't let her know.
So she still thought that she was
signed on for the second movie, but
then Bryce Dallas Howard was doing it.
It's a whole thing.
It's super shady.
And I mean, Bryce Dallas Howard
is a Nepo baby and is who she is.
And the original was
an unknown pretty much.
So that's just what happens,
baby.
Lan: I just read it was
a scheduling conflict.
Yeah.
Terra: Yeah, but it's
Ben: That's
Terra: not.
It's a really shady, because
they were, there, there was a
lot there.
Ben: uh, that's dishonest as fuck.
Jeremy: appreciate that the
plot progression at this point
is they leave and then Laurent,
Eddie Gathegi the black vampire,
shows up, shows up at their house and
is like, I don't fuck with these guys.
I was just traveling with them.
They, they fucking suck,
but they're gonna kill you.
So, like, I don't want
you to think that's me.
I don't want anything to do with that.
I don't want any of this smoke.
Just, like,
be cool.
Ben: showing up in the brown leather
j In the open brown leather jacket, no
Terra: hot.
Ugh.
Ben: Ah, Mr.
Terrific, indeed.
Terra: So hot.
Okay, and Laurent, so Laurent is
I love this character so much.
And it's such a shame that Katherine
Hardwicke couldn't do what she wanted
to do with this movie because her
vision was that since the Cullens
are from all different locations
and all different time periods, they
can be every race and ethnicity.
There's no reason why they should all
look the same because they don't have to.
Katherine
Hardwicke.
Catholic Hardwick wanted a completely
multiracial and multicultural
group of Cullens for the movies.
But Stephanie Meyer said no and
demanded that they all be white.
This is something that is, you can
literally, it's well documented.
There's a lot of debate about it.
It's just a lot, but she had very,
very, very specific ideas about
what these characters looked like.
And she was very, very.
like intent on the fact that they
have like pale white skin because
they're vampires and Catherine
Hardwicke is like any skin color
can be pale for its skin color.
Anybody can be a vampire.
But she did, she wasn't
able to get the permission.
So we got the cast that we
got, which, everyone killed it.
It is great in their own way
or memable in their own way.
But Laurent is the only.
Vampire of color in that movie and
we could have had so much more.
It could have been so sick
Ben: Yeah, ugh.
It is so funny that the main villain just
walks up and like, again, the conflict is
kicked off because James just smells Bella
and is like, Hey, you seem fun to kill!
I'mma kill ya!
Lan: Yeah.
Jeremy: Also, that he's the main villain
and easily, like, the third guy of three.
Like, the other two, Laurent
and, uh, Victoria, are so much
more, like, interesting looking.
They, they've got their own, like, things
going, and he is, yet another white guy.
And they're like, no,
this, this is a villain.
Ben: Well, to me, the funniest part of
the whole movie, because it's absolutely
the most fucked up part of the movie,
and it's so funny the way they just
yada yada yada their way through it,
is after James has been defeated,
And Bella's, like, being poisoned and
woozy, and just, in the background,
you can see the fucking funeral pyre
they're about to burn James alive on.
Jeremy: Them actively ripping
him limb from limb in the
Ben: Yeah, like,
Terra: so that's the thing so like
victoria it takes tries to take her
vengeance against them in the next two
movies for killing James, which is her
lover, and is such a cool character if
Rachel had been able to do her, because
Rachel had such a spice and like, I just
wanted to see her be evil, you know, I
think that she could have really done it,
but that didn't happen, and it honestly
doesn't even matter anyway, because the
next two movies Even though Victoria's
doing all that and plotting this revenge
against them, it's not even about that.
It's once again only about
Edward and Bella and the very
last bit has some action.
That's pretty much what this entire
franchise does every single movie.
Yeah, no,
Ben: Even on, like, on her book.
Like, again, that, she goes to meet
this family, and there's no conflict.
Lan: No.
Ben: Everyone in the family
loves her except for one, but
she doesn't do anything except
smash salad, and that's okay.
It's just salad.
No, like, nothing of value is lost.
I do love the line that says,
like, oh, this is our first
time using, like, the kitchen.
There's something almost, like, Like,
there's something almost what we do in
the shadows about it, where it's like,
where it's like our like third rock to
the sun, like, where it's like, oh, like,
our vampire boy's bringing over a human,
quick, look at the cooking channel,
like, we need to teach ourselves, us
vampires need to teach ourselves cooking
that we haven't done in 200 years.
Terra: they were literally
like, her name is Bella.
That must be Isabella.
Oh, she must like Italian food,
Ben: Snarky
flawless.
Like, that is some real
Mandor the Relentless shit.
Lan: the logic pipeline for some
of these characters wild as balls.
Jeremy: Yeah, also the fact that
like, in this bit, within like the
same breath, they're like, Oh yes,
we have this kitchen full of kitchen
supplies that we've never used.
Also, this is Edward's bedroom.
It doesn't have a bed.
Terra: right?
Why would they have the kitchen supplies
in the first place?
Ben: the
Jeremy: the
kitchen stuff, but they don't have a bed.
Ben: how about the wall
of, uh, graduation caps?
Terra: The private family joke.
Ben: That you're like, hey,
this is our normal human house,
so we look normal and human.
Oh, here's a wall of all the various
times we've graduated high school and our
immortal lives just hanging on the wall.
Terra: What's funny is that, like, in
the fourth movie, when they get married,
that's still up on the wall, and they're
getting married, like, in their backyard.
So, like, all the guests, everyone
that they have been trying to hide the
secret from, like, definitely saw that.
So,
Ben: Again, that's what I'm saying,
because by then they're on like
season six of the CW show, where every
character has become aware of it.
Because that, because this is
all taking place in a world where
Anna Kendrick had enough screen
time to learn about vampires.
Terra: I would have loved to see that.
That
Ben: Ugh.
Jeremy: I just want, I just want
Anna Kendrick to have a Buffy like
spinoff in this story, you know?
Terra: would have been great.
Ben: Like, god, Anna Kendrick has
this one line where she's just
like cringing through her face,
she's like, that's so funny.
And she's just like, oh,
miserable to be there.
God, that's so funny, she
didn't even know she was there.
I mean, again, there isn't much
plot anywhere, it's like, James
is like, I wanna kill you, that'll
be fun, and they're like, we
gotta stop him, and then they do,
Jeremy: they make a really complex plan
to get away from him, and then that lasts
about 30 seconds before they're like, ah,
fuck it I guess that he's, I guess he's
calling from the mom's phone, so we have
to like, go to Arizona to deal with this
vampire, and then they, they fight in her
dance studio, which, this is the first
time we're hearing anything about Bella.
Terra: She, and she's the clumsiest
person in the world, but she was a dancer.
I
still don't get that.
Ben: when the Bella clumsiness, they
save the best bit of clumsiness for the
very end, where the entire explanation
for all of her many vampire inflicted
injuries is that she is so clumsy, she
fell down multiple flights of stairs out
Terra: window.
Yep.
Ben: What kind of buster key is that shit?
Terra: And her mom is just
like, of course that happened.
Oh no.
Jeremy: the way it's delivered is so,
she's being abused by her boyfriend.
Like, it's so, it's hard to
watch, even though I know she
wasn't abused by her boyfriend.
It's like, the way it's
delivered is like, yeah, I ran
into a doorknob a hundred times.
Like,
Terra: it's so glaring and that's why I
like Charlie's character because Charlie
is very much like I hate this guy and
I don't want you with him and I don't
trust him and I think that you're being
hurt and I think it's his fault and like
throughout the the next movies like has a
bit more like says that much more forward
but like in this movie he's just like you.
Nah, I'm just gonna hold my shotgun if
he tries to take you out on a date or
something and, like, just, like, visual
threats cuz he's a Pacific Northwest cop,
Ben: did, did, did Charlie deserve
to be completely emotionally
vivisected by his own daughter
Terra: yeah, that was rough.
That, I, like, as I've gotten
older, that insult, like, what
she says to him hurts more.
The older I've gotten, I'm like, oh
my god, that's, so mean.
Ben: she could've just said, Hey, I'm
having a big messy breakdown, I'm gonna go
drive around, spend a few days out of my
friend's place in Clear, and just, like,
Terra: She
could've just been like, I'm
having a sleepover at Jessica's.
See ya.
Ben: no, that she went out of her
way to say like, I told him what my
mother said before she abandoned us.
Or left him.
Terra: she very easily could have
just said she was having a sleepover.
Ben: Right?
Terra: It didn't have to be all that.
Ben: Oh
Jeremy: told him that all cops are bad
and then he is a tool of the state.
It's that kind of feeling.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: my god.
this
Jeremy: they burn James alive
in the background while Bella is
dying of the venom of vampire bite.
Ben: Oh, and I guess
Edward gets to complete his
character arc by biting Bella.
But yeah, yeah.
Jeremy: By edging?
Yes.
Terra: By edging, exactly.
Jeremy: That's, that's his true test,
is not
Ben: just Jeremy just knocked me
out of frame with that one, folks.
Lan: Well, I mean, I'm surprised
you haven't, like, slowly but
surely, just during this, just start
getting farther and farther until
you finally are just fully reclined.
Yeah.
Ben: Oh, that'd be great.
Oh,
Jeremy: What's the, oh my
god, what's the Mormon thing?
Soaking?
He's soaking?
Terra: Yeah, soaking there's another thing
Ben: I don't think why I don't
know why you think I would know
this, or want to know this!
Terra: You, you know what soaking is?
Ben: I don't, and I don't want to!
Terra: you don't want
Ben: I mean, I I mean,
yeah, I do.
I I mean, yeah, yeah, I
mean, I'm I'm yeah, I mean,
I'm of course I'm morbidly
curious, of course.
Yeah, fuckin yeah, like,
fuckin like, gimme gimme the
fir gimme the cursed forbidden
Jeremy: well, it's not, see,
it's not sex if you put it in
and then don't do anything, you
just leave it there for a while?
Ben: Oh, that's dumb.
Terra: Yeah.
So soaking is just, you know, insertion.
but then sometimes I forget what they call
this, but there's a term for this, but
like, so soaking is it's just in there.
And so the two people are not moving,
but then they get their friends.
This is a real thing.
The friends will come around and jump
on the bed and push the bed up and down.
Yeah.
That's how it works.
Ben: They made it so, they made it
so much kinkier than regular sex.
Terra: It's so much kinkier.
Now it's a group situation.
Ben: my god, now it's a
Jeremy: humping.
Lan: It's a group activity.
Ben: an almost like ritual, there's
like almost like a ritual involved,
like, oh my god, ugh, that's like
how the Antichrist is conceived.
Jeremy: Jump humping.
Ben: Oh my god, so,
y'all, Twilight, we're here, we're
I guess we recapped what plot there
Jeremy: Oh, don't forget,
we do have to end at prom,
Ben: Oh,
Jeremy: in which they go in and then
Bella's like, I don't like being in here.
Let's go outside to dance at the gazebo
like we live at fucking Gilmore Girls.
Ben: fuckin Bella wishes
she was in Killmore Girls.
Jeremy: Then they go dance in the gazebo.
Terra: She would not do
well in Gilmore Girls.
Ben: No, but she would No, but she
wants
Terra: interesting enough,
you know what I mean?
Like, Gilmore Girls is
about,
Jeremy: She's,
they're basically the same
Terra: I guess that's,
yeah, that's a good point.
Well, at least like Rory is well
read and self determined and like
very self possessed and wants to do
education and has the coolest mom.
Like, Gilmore Girls is about being
the hottest person in your small town,
Ben: And her mom is married to
a minor league baseball player.
Which
Terra: which is also kind of Bella's
journey, like coming from Arizona into
Forks, but I do want to say, okay, I
don't know if any of you have experienced
this or seen this happen, but like, I've
actively experienced this where like,
you're in one place for long enough and
everybody knows you, they've known you
since childhood or for a very long time,
and so to all of them, they only know your
awkward things and like, You're made fun
of there, but when you go somewhere else,
and you're new, and all those people who
already know each other don't know you
yet, you're suddenly a hot commodity,
and people are interested in you
because they don't know who you are yet.
That
Jeremy: to reinvent yourself.
Terra: Well, not even that, but like,
I'm like, Oh shit, all the ways in
which I've been told I'm a loser and
I'm ugly and I'm stupid and unwanted.
Suddenly I go somewhere else and people
are saying the exact opposite of that.
Maybe the problem isn't me.
Ben: Yes, I also have
issues with my family.
Jeremy: For some of us
that's called college.
Terra: Right.
Yeah.
So
Jeremy: You go somewhere where
the other people actually like all
the weird nerdy shit you're into
and suddenly you're like, oh, it's not me.
It was the guys in the tap
out shirt the whole time.
They were the assholes.
Who knew?
Ben: I agree.
It is nice being in environments
where your existence is not
actively penalized on a daily basis.
It makes life is easier and
better when that isn't happening.
Anyway, uh, this movie, do we want to
get into our questions about it and
all of the themes it tackled, Jeremy?
Jeremy: Oh, I think we do have to mention
that this last scene, they dance and
then she is like, I really want to be
bitten
and
Ben: to be a vampire
Jeremy: he is like, no thanks.
Not interested.
I believe in you remaining
abstinent until marriage.
Ben: Yeah, no, being a vampire could
not be more code for just like, the
most hardcore and filthy of sex.
It's not subtle.
Lan: Nothing about this
movie is subtle, Ben.
Yeah.
Ben: ends with, like,
Jeremy: We also learned that he's been
17 since like 1915, I think they say.
So he's like
a
Ben: 1918 1918 because
Lan: he had the Spanish
flu.
Yeah, the Spanish, the
Spanish flu epidemic.
No, this movie has the, this movie
has the subtlety of like five 9 11s.
Like, it's nothing to deep
think about because it tells
you everything there is to know.
about everything.
There's no theorizing, there's
no trying to hatch, like,
oh, what, what could happen?
Oh, okay, gotcha, you're telling
us what, okay, right, right, right.
So, I, I think it's very, it would
be very rare for someone to be, to
watch this movie, which is just over
two hours, and it goes by super fast,
Ben: It really does.
You know, like, no part of this
movie drags, and I'm not sure if
Lan: No, no, no, no.
Absolutely not.
No, no, no,
no.
It, it's kind of like face off
and it doesn't, and it, it's not
exactly like, oh, the plot happens.
I'm like,
Ben: that's our review of the night.
Twilight is like face off.
No further context provided.
Lan: the plot isn't a plot.
It's not like this happens, therefore
this happens because this happens.
It's a string of events that you
just kinda like, it's a luge.
It's what it is.
It's a luge of events.
That you just slide down and
watch everything happen, and
they tell you everything.
There's nothing to not get about
Twilight, and it's almost remarkable that
there's three other movies after this.
Ben: I love that at one point Jacob has
a chance to leave like a cryptic message
and add intrigue and mystery to it.
And Sage just goes, Hey, my grandpa paid
me 20 bucks to give you this message.
Also, we're not werewolves.
Lan: We're definitely not werewolves.
FYI, nothing weird about us.
Again, subtlety not
the strong suit of this
Ben: Oh,
Jeremy: compared it to Faceoff,
and now I just want to know what
John Woo's Twilight would be like.
Lan: It would be amazing,
it
Ben: Yeah, be be, fuckin him.
Lan: it would be amazing, and the, the
visual, like, speed effects, like, I,
Ben: it'd be so much better.
Lan: that, that would be somebody's
sexual awakening, by itself,
Ben: So, does this movie have anything to
say or explore anything about race other
than vampires have to be white people?
Yes.
Lan: Yeah,
Terra: Yeah, it also says that
the werewolves are feral and that
they're the indigenous people.
So is that
Lan: that,
Jeremy: even though they're on screen
the least, they have, they're the
most interesting characters, like,
Terra: true?
The werewolves are so
fun and like the second
Ben: The idea that
there's just a pack of just like, ripped
shirtless werewolf bros just constantly
hanging out and chilling in the woods,
I'm like, I wanna follow those guys,
they seem like they're having fun.
also, I love how this movie, I
know it doesn't show up, but I love
how this movie doesn't, like, this
franchise doesn't have wolf men, they
just turn into actual big wolves.
Lan: Yeah,
love that,
Terra: wolves.
Lan: that.
Jeremy: Yeah,
the, the, everything
about race is bad in this
Ben: Is there anything queer about
this movie other than what Kristen
Stewart is repressing in every scene?
Terra: Truly.
Lan: what Eric is repressing.
Terra: So, I mean, Anna Kendrick's
character is super queer coded,
like, oh, okay, at the very,
there is, at the very end,
Ben: is, so yeah.
Terra: whenever, so when they go
dress shopping together, it's her and
um, oh my gosh, she plays Orsita on
The Walking Dead, I forget her name,
Susie Crabgrass, yes, Kristen
Stewart, yes, I love her.
Okay, so when them three, they go shopping
and they're looking for, like, the little
prom dresses, they were That was flirting.
That was down bad flirting on all
Ben: Oh, when Anna Kendrick is
just going, Bella, how do my boobs
Terra: How do my boobs look?
Ben: Anna, quick Bella, look at
my boobs and tell me how they are.
Terra: So that's all very queer to me.
But then at the very end, so Bella
walks into prom with Edward, looks
at Jessica, and motions to her boobs
and gives her like a thumbs up.
She's like, fuck yeah, they look great.
And she's like, I know, right?
That was gay.
That was very gay.
It made me very gay.
It made a lot of my friends very gay.
It was very gay.
Ben: again, class, nothing, I don't
think this movie, I guess the vampires
give us wealth porn because, vampires,
cause we're still, that's just a general
part of vampires is still just wealth.
Yeah.
Lan: yeah.
Ben: I don't know if there's
any exploration there.
I
Terra: Now,
Lan: When he has a job, he has a
career as a doctor, so I mean doctors
are usually financially, well off.
Jeremy: Every rich person in the
northeastern, er, in the northwestern
movie lives in the same, like, glass
house full of, like, multiple levels
that all face different directions.
Ben: I wanna see I wish I could
see them all just hanging out
on a sunny day in that big ass
with those big ass glass windows.
Just all of them just shining
like fucking, like glittering.
And just like fucking blinding each
other with their goddamn glittery bodies.
I mean, the big thing with this movie,
and this has always been the discussion
when it comes to Twilight, is this movie,
and feminism, and women's issues, and I
mean, it's kind of what we've been I mean,
it's hard to sum up in a quick little
thing, and it's kind of what we've been
discussing for the last hour and a half.
Lan: yeah.
Ben: So,
Terra: before we go there, I do want
to say, like, normally vampires,
I mean, they're, there's a lot of,
like, queerness and, like, they're
all being sexy with each other.
This movie's vampires, this
entire franchise's vampires
are all incredibly straight.
Like, this is such an incredibly
straight vampire movie.
Ben: that they're all introduced as
foster siblings who are dating each other.
We didn't even get to that
they are explicitly introduced
as, like, incest vampires.
Lan: Quasi incest.
Ben: Yes.
Lan: incest.
Terra: And like, yeah, it's, it's,
they're coupled off so that it's
clear like they're not fucking.
They're not all fucking each
other, although like that's the
Ben: No matter how much more chemistry K
Stu has with Alice, don't fucking worry
Terra: They have so much more chemistry!
Ugh.
But yeah, so that, that was the,
the final point that I wanted
to make there, but as far as
Ben: The straightest vampires.
And that should and that
should not be possible.
Terra: never happen!
It should never
Ben: It it might be Stephanie Meyer's
most powerful feat as a writer.
Terra: Ha ha ha!
She made vampires
straight, that's so true.
But
Jeremy: So much heavy lifting there.
Ben: It reminds, again, to bring up
another terrible, it reminds me of, like,
Voldemort's one, which is like, it did
great things, terrible things, but great.
Terra: ha ha, this is really true.
That's a really good point.
That's probably her greatest
feat, I think you're right.
Ben: Oh,
Terra: I can't think of a straighter
vampire than any of the ones in Twilight.
Ben: I mean,
Terra: like, even Buffy's kinda gay.
Super gay.
Not even kinda.
Ben: yeah, oh yeah, fucking,
Terra: Maybe su
Jeremy: mean, she's explicitly
gay in the comics afterwards,
or bi in the comics afterwards.
Ben: I, move, that, anyway, that's,
Terra: But the feminism aspect!
Ben: I mean, it's, that will always be
this movie's legacy, I mean, like, it's
by, it's, it's truly for teenage girls, it
is for, Teenage girls and their fantasies,
and God, the baggage that society put
around this mood, around this story's
neck, undeservedly so, and I'm like,
my attitude is it's like, look, it's
kind of like, oh, it's a horny, toxic,
power, like, wish fulfillment fantasy.
That's okay.
Terra: Yeah,
Lan: that's okay.
Terra: that should be okay.
Ben: Maybe, it's bad if those, if
that's the only kind of story you have,
but like, yeah, you're allowed some
fun, you're allowed like a fucking,
like, a piece of like chocolate
cake every now and then, like, yeah.
Like, I don't think, like, the aspects
of this movie that are really toxic,
like, again, I don't think it points to,
like, societal or, like, systemic issues.
Or like, I don't think it's necessarily
exploring that, or, but neither is
it perpetuating it, I think it's
just kinda like, Yeah, you're into
some fucked up kinky shit, and, Yeah,
some real red flags if any of this
is happening in real life, but yeah,
for your horny fiction, go for it.
Terra: It's interesting to me because
I feel like anything that a large
group of women like suddenly becomes a
conversation about whether or not it's
feminist or whether or not it passes
these like meters or whether or not
it's good for women or all these things.
And I'm like, there are so many
things that are, quote unquote, for
men that are like, That we don't
have those conversations about.
We don't talk about toxic
masculinity in so many franchises.
We don't talk about those things.
So it's like, I always get a little
bit frustrated there with like this
because the text, like Twilight in
Text is not incredibly feminist.
Other than just a teen girl owning
her desire and knowing what she wants.
There's not anything feminist about it.
There's also not anything so
horribly un feminist about it,
except for the fact that it's
very obviously toxic relationship.
Like those things are not good.
And also those things did inherently
teach me like not great lessons
about romance when I was younger.
Like I can point back and say, Oh, I
think I might've learned that a bit
from Twilight when I was in my like
very like early dating years when I was
like a teenager, you know what I mean?
That I had since learned.
you know, maybe the guy who's super
obsessed with you and shows up at your
house throwing rocks at your window
and it's not a metaphor, like he's
actually throwing pebbles at your
window isn't the love of your life?
Maybe the person who's like, super
obsessed with you and writing very
detailed poems for five pages every
day about you isn't your soulmate.
Like maybe, maybe that person
should probably stay away from you.
And I didn't know this thing.
So I learned to ignore a lot of red flags.
So it's,
Ben: really something to be said for Mike
in this movie, a character who, openly
communicates and expresses his romantic
interest, gets rejected, and then backs
off for the rest of the franchise.
Terra: just, it's
just normal dude, Mike,
you know what I mean?
Ben: Yeah,
Jeremy: Yeah, I
think, I mean, I think discussing, like,
Feminism, and this was almost sort of
beside the point of Twilight because it
catches this, it really butterfly netted
this vibe of like, the purity movement
in the 2000s of like, girls who were
sort of, I feel like a lot of people
I knew in high school and even into
college who like, were interested, wanted
to explore this stuff, but had like,
Explicitly been taught their entire lives.
not to not just have sex, but
not to please themselves, not
to explore any of that stuff.
Like, that they just needed to
fucking stay horny and deal with
it and talk to Jesus about it.
And that that is like, the vibe that this
movie captures of just like, that bottled
up angst of all those, teen girls who were
like, Oh, this is an outlet where like,
there's something that I recognize here.
And, and just sort of like jumped on
that and that it, you know, it sort of
explicitly has in the background of this
story, this, you know, continuing, like
she's being pushed off by Edward in this
case to not like engage sexually in a
way that feels Weird to me watching it
now is like super moralizing from an
immortal demon you know, a man who has
lived 100 and some years and is like
lecturing her about, maintaining her
purity or whatever is like, it's super
weird in the way a lot of Edward's
stuff is super weird from a relationship
standpoint, but it's, almost beside the
point because it really Captured a thing
that is very real or was very real.
I mean, I'm sure it still is but wild
Terra: definitely think, like, the
conversation around whether or not,
like, just the conversation around the
feminism of Twilight, for me, more lies
in, like, the greater response to it
socially in the world at that time.
Let teen girls love the
things that they love.
I mean, talk to them about it and like,
help them figure out whether or not
this is super healthy, that would be
the feminist thing to do is be like,
if I go back in time and talk to me or
something like, oh, I totally understand
why you love this thing so much.
So much.
Um, have you ever considered that, like,
this church you're growing up in, like,
this abstinence culture isn't super
healthy in that if you masturbate, you're
not gonna go to hell and you aren't a
terrible person for wanting to just be
connected with someone romantically?
Like, all those things would
be totally natural and normal?
Like, the response to Twilight, I think,
from people who hated it just because
teen girls liked it, or because it got so
popular, or whatever, I think that's the
conversation about whether or not it's
feminist, because it doesn't matter to me
what a woman wants to do with her life, as
long as she's not, some horrible Rowling
type like, it doesn't matter to me what
you do with your life, as long as you're
not harming people, or like, putting
forth terrible political movements, if
you're just a girl, If you're literally
just a girl and you want to, like, get
with your vampire boyfriend and, like,
live your little life in a moody town,
like, I'd love that for you, babe.
Do that.
You know?
That's feminism.
Do that.
Lan: Yeah, I think that's
what you, I think that's what
you mentioned in the first,
like she has the agency.
This is what she wants to do.
Yeah.
Ben: drop So I guess do
we recommend Twilight?
Terra: And I think all three
of you should actually go and
watch the next four movies.
Jeremy: I'm weirdly tempted.
I you
Terra: They get worse.
I promise you they get so much worse.
And so much better and so much worse.
Jeremy: yeah cuz it this is fascinating
to me as a cultural artifact at this point
Now cuz it is like it's not good like
Ben: no, it's not a good movie,
but like it's a bad movie But also
look it's a bad movie, but also let
me be very clear We have watched
much worse movies on this podcast
Lan: I, I
feel like we're heading,
we're headed into a remake.
I feel like we're heading into
a remake in the next five years.
Ben: Oh
Terra: I hope so.
Ben: but this time it'll be
a stream, but this time it'll
be a streaming service show.
Lan: Yep.
Absolutely.
It'll be an absolute
Jeremy: I have a terrible, I
Terra: and it will be so
bad and I will watch it.
I will watch it.
And I, like, I love to watch Twilight
in the same way that I love to watch The
Room, in the same way that I love to like
throw things at a screen whenever I go
to like a midnight madness showing of
Rocky Horror or any of the movies that are
like known for being truly fucking awful.
I love watching Twilight
as like a midnight madness.
This is really dumb and let's just enjoy
what happened as a cultural artifact.
Lan: Yeah.
Ben: Absolutely.
Jeremy: Twilight that I'll, they'll
inevitably make, probably on, like, Amazon
who is Lin Manuel Miranda going to play?
The
Lan: If I
Ben: Oh no, he's Sheriff Dad!
Terra: Go play the teacher.
Lan: I was gonna say, if
I had my way, if I had my
way,
Jeremy: teacher.
Lan: Carlisle,
Ben: Oh yeah, he's gonna, yeah.
Terra: Make a bold choice.
Ben: Yep, Carlisle.
Lan: Be weird with Carlisle, and
I think that would be the best
Ben: He's gonna be the
rapping werewolf grandpa.
Terra: He'd be, yeah,
Lan: M.
S.
Billy Black would be really dumb, but,
Jeremy: Great!
Ben: Oh, super fucking dumb!
Real, real dumb.
Terra: I could see him as one
of the trio, as a Laurent type.
Like I'm not with these
guys, but let me wrap up.
Let me launch into a rap about
why I'm this, what's on one
of these two evil characters.
Ben: I feel like we really missed our
window for Alan Richardson as, uh, James.
Lan: He'll do it, sure.
Well, thank you for, uh,
thank you for having me on.
Jeremy: Yeah before you, before you run
away, uh, what would you like to recommend
that people check out after this?
Lan: Oh, like a movie?
Ben: Movie, show, it could be related to
this, it could not be related to this.
Lan: Wow.
Ben: you like.
Lan: I feel like if you haven't
seen AMC's Interview with a
Vampire series, go watch that
because Season 2 is dropping very soon.
I should get my screeners very soon.
I, I'm an AMC partner so
I have to clarify that.
But, so I should get my screeners
very soon, and I'm excited for
that because that's first season.
Ben: incredible.
Lan: So good!
Ben: Oh my god, that
first season was, that first
season, that was, that first season
was my absolute favorite show
of, I think, 2022 it was, right?
Yeah, absolute favorite show of 2022.
I am, and I'm not paid by AMC.
I just, I am motivated purely by the
desire to want more people to go see
the new interview of the vampire show
because it's just that fucking good.
Lan: yeah, I can, I can
do that mild plug there.
it's so good and I'm looking
forward to the second season.
Ben: Oh, yes, great, great
Lan: We're going to get,
obviously Armand, obviously
Santiago, just give me all of it.
Ben: I just really hope the show goes
on long enough that we get, This version
of Lestat as the 80s hair metal star.
Lan: Why not?
Let's go.
Let's get weird.
Ben: It happens in the book!
Lan: I'm aware.
I'm aware.
Yeah, you know what, that's, I'll
keep it simple, because I'm trying
to think of another horror movie
recently I really, really enjoyed.
So I think I'm just going to do that one.
Ben: You, it's a great one.
Lan: a great, yeah, I want to,
I want to end on a high note.
So yeah,
Terra: I'm going to say you got
to go see Lisa Frankenstein.
Lan: okay, that
Ben: I do, I do need to
see Lisa Frankenstein.
Terra: it's, it's fun.
It's another Like, so it's another
film that like centers around a teen
girl and her desire and what she
desperately wants is to just be loved and
Lan: and I saw a screener for it.
I saw an advanced screener for it I
think like two weeks before it came out.
And the fact I still hadn't
heard, like, any buzz for it is
Terra: I know.
Lan: dying at the movies.
Yeah.
Terra: been like driving me crazy.
So I've, I've been in a, in a writers
group where Diablo Cody comes and visits.
As a screenwriter, I'm in this writer's
group and like Jabba Cody will come
in and visit and had had mentioned
this movie long, long, long time ago.
And when it finally got green light
and finally got made, I was like,
Oh my gosh, I cannot wait to see
this because I've heard about this.
And I just feel like there
hasn't been any hype.
I haven't seen, and like, I'm directly
the targeted demographic for this movie.
And I haven't seen as much
as I feel like I should.
but I loved it very much.
and so I've been telling everyone just
to go see it just because it deserves
money at the very least and also it's
good and it's funny and it's campy and,
um, it's very stylized and it's very fun.
Lan: a good one.
Ben: Absolutely.
Jeremy: What about you, Ben?
What do you recommend?
Ben: I mean, if you're horny and you like
trash, I mean, there's seven seasons of
Riverdale just right there for the watchin
Jeremy: Horny and like trash.
All right.
Terra: That's gonna be my new
introduction for any of the shows I do.
If you're horny and you like
trash, you're gonna love me.
Jeremy: I really want to see
Ben: And you know I
Jeremy: I'm excited to check that one out.
Yeah, I was gonna say for me I feel
like after seeing The acting that's
going on from both of them in this one.
I recommend people go see better
performances by both of these leads
the lighthouse is fucking demented and
Lan: Oh,
Terra: That's so good.
Jeremy: You haven't seen the lighthouse
go, I mean, Robert Pattinson trying to
match Willem Dafoe's demented energy
is just like, it's cinematic gold.
And uh, Kristen Stewart, I
mean, it's all over the place.
I actually really enjoyed Happiest
Season, her gay sort of romcom
Terra: you did?
How?
That movie felt like a hate
crime the entire time I was
Jeremy: I
Ben: should've been with Aubrey Plaza!
Jeremy: if you
Terra: It's super hot
Jeremy: accept the fact that her
girlfriend is supposed to be a villain,
which I feel like, I feel like is maybe
just my reading of it, that, you're
supposed to be like, no, she's terrible
Terra: Like, yeah, she's terrible.
Break up with your girlfriend
and go get with Aubrey Palazza.
That's what the movie should have been.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I'm, I'm, I'm still somewhere
in the back of my mind.
I'm sure I'm imagining there's a
sequel where that actually happens.
Cause I feel like that's the way the
movie is leaning for a long time.
And it feels like that's
the way it's going to go.
Except for, I guess the girlfriend
is the protagonist of the story.
So they have to forgive her.
So but like.
it's well made, it's well acted, it's,
like, has actual money behind it,
Kristen Stewart is great in it, which
is why I recommend her for that, but,
yeah, the, the last half hour of that
kind of goes off the rails for me, but,
um, it's worth seeing for her, I think.
And I haven't seen Love, Light,
and Bleeding yet, so I'm sure,
you know, if, if this were
a few weeks later, I would
probably recommend that, because
Terra: I need that to get
into my brain already.
I need to just download
that and through my pores.
Like, I need that so bad immediately.
Jeremy: Yeah, I it's a movie that like
every time I see a trailer for it.
I'm like, I can't believe this exists
I'm so excited that this movie exists and
it seems impossible anyway You're
in the future so go watch it
Terra: Yeah.
Jeremy: Go watch lovelace bleeding forget
what I said Yeah, I mean that wraps it
up for us Tara Do you want to let people
know where they can find you online where
they can keep up with what you're doing?
Terra: Sure.
So I, as was introduced, am a
burlesque baddie and a burlesque
queen and a horror baddie.
So the only account that you can find
me on right now is my burlesque account.
My name is HoneyTwat.
So, find me there, that's also where I
do a lot of my film stuff and my stand
up comedy, it's kind of a hodgepodge
at this moment, but we're figuring
it out, but yeah, it's honeytwot
on Instagram and anywhere else.
Yeah,
Jeremy: follow, I can say that for sure.
You don't
Terra: don't follow me unless
you're really down, like, Ben
said, what was it trash, horny and
trash my Instagram bio is literally
gutter and glamour, it's just the
Ben: I love that for you.
Jeremy: yeah, you don't, you don't know
if you're gonna get stand up comedy,
burlesque, or horror stuff at any given
time, but it's always entertaining.
For sure.
Yeah.
Uh, Lan, what about you?
Where can people find you online?
Lan: Google?
Um, I'm on Instagram under
my real name under my name.
Uh, then Twitter is pitstuff, P I
double T S E D underscore O double F.
I'm everywhere.
I'm not hard to find.
It's always funny when people
ask me if I have cards.
I'm like, no, I don't.
Just Google my name.
I'm not a reclusive cryptid.
I'm not, I'm a weapon trade
Jeremy: not a super common name.
You're not one
Lan: Yeah, I'm not, yeah, I'm
not worried about being lost into
the Loudness of the internet.
I'm okay.
So come on, come on by.
I'm always talking about some bullshit.
Wrestling, my cats, toy
collecting movies, TV.
I do buy lines have buy lines at Gamespot.
com.
That's GameSpot, not GameStop.
I do not sell you video games.
I talk about them and
movie and television.
I don't know, I'm, I'm all,
like I said, I my tastes are all
over the place, so come on by.
Jeremy: And,
Terra: also like to say if
anyone is listening in the Los
Angeles area, come see a show.
I produce horror shows that
are immersive and theatrical.
So if anyone's in LA, come see a show.
Jeremy: absolutely.
Ben, where do people find you online?
Ben: Oh, you know, you can find me
at all the places at Ben Kahn Comics.
Pick up my work.
You got your Renegade Rule
and your Captain Laserhawk.
Blood Dragon Remix, Crushing
Love out now in stores.
so yeah, hop on it and enjoy some comics.
Thank you so much for
Everyone for joining us.
Thank you, Lan.
Thank you, Tara.
And thank you to everyone who listened.
And thank you, Jeremy, for
being your wonderful self.
Terra: Yes.
Thank you for having me.
Appreciate it.
Jeremy: Yes, thank you guys so much
for coming and I'm finally holding
a copy of my new book, The Cold Ever
After, in my hand, so just go buy that,
guys.
Just go buy my weird, queer
Arthurian noir romance thing.
Lan: All right, perfect.
Sure.
Jeremy: do it.
Yeah, and, uh, you know, follow the
podcast wherever you're downloading it.
It's available everywhere.
We're on Twitter at ProgHorrorPod.
We're now on BlueSky at
ProgHorrorPod as well.
if you don't want to go to the toxic
waste dump that is modern Twitter.
So, uh, yeah, do all that, follow
us on Patreon, all that good stuff.
And, uh, until next time, stay horrified.